DSS182: Combining The Fields of Fire Protection Engineering & Combustible Dust Safety with Marc Hodapp

In today’s episode of the Dust Safety Science podcast, we talk about combining the fields of fire protection engineering and combustible dust safety. To do that, we’re speaking with Marc Hodapp, Senior Fire Protection Engineer with Fire & Risk Alliance based out of Rockville, Maryland.

Marc has an extensive background in combustible dust and hazard analysis risk assessment, incident investigation, performance-based design and fire modelling. We had him on the podcast back in Episode #26, talking about the different types of dust hazard analyses. He also presented on quantitative risk analysis for combustible dust handling operations at the first Global Dust Safety Conference.

In this episode, Marc answers the following questions:

What is fire protection engineering?
What are some gaps between fire protection engineering and combustible dust safety?
Can fire protection engineers show people how to respond to hazards?

What is Fire Protection Engineering?

Marc explained that fire protection engineering is a multifaceted discipline.

“Fire protection engineering has a very strong core and some of the engineering sciences that are associated with fire dynamics. Fire protection engineering is understanding fire dynamics, the combustion process, heat and smoke generation, heat transport and heat transfer, the effects of fire and smoke, human behaviour and fire. It’s also understanding how building occupants respond to smoke and how egress works. There’s a heavy reliance on Building and Fire Code because a lot of what’s done in the fire protection engineering is promulgated through Building and Fire Code… and a lot of emphasis on water-based fire suppression, sprinkler systems, water spray, water mist, and then other specialty suppression systems.”

He acknowledged that combustible dust knowledge isn’t always as extensive.

“In general, most fire protection engineers don’t come out of school with an extensive background in combustible dust. So those of us from the fire protection side who become experts in combustible dust have generally had to do a lot of outside learning to get there.”

There appears to be an assumption that building fire safety is one thing and combustible dust safety is something altogether different.

“There are certainly unique aspects to combustible dust,” Marc says. “There’s more of a focus on the process, and so in that aspect, a lot of the more traditional process safety way of thinking is very applicable. The other thing that’s unique about combustible dust as a hazard is that if you have an explosion hazard or a flash fire hazard or a deflagration hazard or whatever terminology you want to use, you’re going to likely also have an accompanying fire hazard. And one can precede the other.”

He explained that a fire can escalate into an explosion, or vice-versa. You could also have a process like coal handling, where there’s a fire hazard in one portion of the process and it becomes more of an explosion concern later.

“That’s one thing that’s unique about bulk solids handling and combustible dust is that you’ve got a very close interrelation between fire and explosion hazards. Generally, where you have one, you have the other.”

What are Some Gaps Between Fire Protection Engineering and Combustible Dust Safety?

Marc said that a lot of fire protection engineers or fire safety consultants will focus on the building itself and less on equipment. For example, the International Fire Code contains little to nothing about where sprinklers need to be to protect equipment. It’ll tell you to protect the area around them and there are rules in NFPA 13 for obstructions, but NFPA 13 doesn’t tell you where to put sprinklers and equipment. The Fire Code has very limited guidance.

“Now, if you happen to be insured by somebody like an FM Global or you have an insurer that is very keen on fire hazards, sometimes it gets picked up through that avenue,” he explains. “But in a lot of cases, this just isn’t picked up… There’s still very much a gap between who picks up fire protection, how it gets integrated and whether you handle that as part of a DHA or not.”

Marc recommended that those doing DHAs should look at dust hazards related to material, equipment, and the building.

“The DHA necessarily doesn’t need to solve all the problems. But at a minimum, if it flags the hazard and identifies the next steps for action, that’s already taking a big step. I have seen a lot of DHAs that don’t mention the word “fire” or will specifically exclude it from its scope. I do think that the fields of fire protection and combustible dust safety do, in general, need to be better integrated.”

A friend of Marc’s used to say, “Explosions are a milliseconds problem and fires are a minute’s problem.” This perfectly illustrates that there are two unique hazards. You may have an explosion suppression system involved, but what do you have in place for fires?”

There is a misconception about where explosion protection and fire protection overlap and what systems handle both hazards. Understanding the differences and why they matter is critical for building and occupant safety. Just like explosion protection needs to be engineered, so does fire protection.

Can Fire Protection Engineers Show People How to Respond to Hazards?

“That’s part of what fire protection engineers can do,” Marc acknowledged. “As with anything, there are specialties within the field, right? I have colleagues that are far better at that than I am. But yes, as a field, we are one group that could advise on fire department response, emergency response planning, that type of thing for sure.

“There’s really nothing novel about an integrated team approach. I think what is novel about it or what’s important about it is integrating the combustible dust into that process and making sure what’s going on with the dust safety is being coordinated with the broader building fire and life safety design.”

Conclusion

Although more work remains to be done, Marc says that he’s seeing improvements when it comes to awareness of both fire and explosion hazards.

“I’ve seen positive change even over the 10 years I’ve been doing [fire protection engineering]. It’s fair to say that everyone involved, all the professionals, and all the owners and operators who are really tackling this topic have a lot to be proud of. I’m sure everyone’s going to get a hold of this and five or 10 years from now, it’ll be common practice that fire protection, explosion safety and dust safety are integrated concepts.”

If you would like to discuss further, leave your thoughts in the comments section below. You can also reach Marc Hodapp directly:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marc-hodapp-p-e-44773a94/
Website: http://www.fireriskalliance.com/wp/

If you have questions about the contents of this or any other podcast episode, you can go to our ‘Questions from the Community’ page and submit a text message or video recording. We will then bring someone on to answer these questions in a future episode.